Future Blue Jays Newsletter - Cory Popham Conversation

 I had a chance to sit down with Blue Jays Minor League Pitching Coordinator Cory Popham for a discussion about the organization’s top pitching prospects. The interview took place last Tuesday (June 18), to give you a frame of reference. Next week, I’ll have more on the breaking news of Orelvis MArtinez’ PED suspension, as well as an updated Top 20 prospects list.

DMFox:   So I am going to skip down to that update that I sent you about guys I wanted to talk about this morning, and we just have to talk about Eric Pardino. given both his performance and his promotion. I didn't get a chance to look this up,  but was he a free agent at the end of last year? 

Cory Popham:  He's a free agent at the end of this year. 

DMF:  Okay, okay, because actually, I chatted with him a little bit today, and he was really grateful to the organization for the patience you’ve shown, and I'm thinking, that's a two-way street, and what a change from a conversation you and I had in Vancouver 14 months ago. Tell me what that journey has been like from your side.

CP:  I think the majority of the people who follow him know about his journey to get here. Yeah, when we were talking last year, it was about the body language and how he was struggling to get through innings and was getting rattled pretty easily. And it's such a credit to him and his perseverance. The stuff that people don't see is how he was here, throughout COVID, the entire time as a young kid, not getting to see his family, battling through injuries. That's tough for even the best of us, but for a kid during a time like that, really difficult. So he battled through all that, and then a credit to him and our coaches, once he got back, was just figuring out a routine that worked for him, making sure that he was balancing how often he was throwing and what intensities, and making sure he was recovering so that he felt good when he was pitching, and then gradually, working on the actual part of pitching, holding runners, making sure he was attacking the zone, what his best pitches were in certain situations. And a huge credit to everyone who worked with him - Joel Bonnett in AA, Austin Bibens-Dirk last year in the bullpen there. And this year, Eric Yardley has been a huge influence for him as the bullpen coach in AA. 

 As you know, it's a difficult game, but when stories like that happen and you see someone, such a good kid, battle through, and all the people that have worked with him to get him to this moment and to see the success he's having is awesome, and he deserves it. 

DMF:  He looks so composed out there, having seen a lot of them this spring. Last year, when he was missing the strike zone, it was like he was trying to throw the ball through the backstop after that. And this year, sometimes he takes a second to regroup, but what a difference…. generally speaking, if he misses the plate a couple of times, even if it's a call that could have gone either way, he just seems to take a breath, step back on the rubber, and he throws a strike. 

CP:  Yeah. And he practices on the mound a lot,  which is something we try to get a lot of our guys to do, that's where they make their money. That's their office. And so it's been something that, in Eric's time through the system, we've increased the amount that we allow guys to get on the mound, and we really want that to not be seen as taboo, where guys are getting to throw off the mound more. And to Eric's credit, he does that. He focuses on throwing. He throws into a miniature strike zone, he does that more than any other guy I've seen on my visits. And so it's not a surprise that it's paying off. He just works really hard, and he's learned his arsenal more, and he's got really good stuff.

  So it's just continuing to attack guys with that stuff, and we're excited to see how he fares in AAA.

DMF: Is the splitter a new pitch? I don't remember seeing it, or maybe he just wasn't able to command it as well last year. But, man, that's a wipeout pitch right now.

 Yeah. He's thrown it before. He's thrown it a little bit more this year, and it's just playing better. All his stuff is playing a little bit better because it's more in the zone. Last year, he threw it 20% of the time.  He's thrown it a little bit more this time. But the pitch is grading out and performing a lot better than last year. So I think it's one that he's just gained a lot more confidence in and is throwing a lot along with the slider and the fastball.

 And he'll sprinkle in the curveball occasionally better. He's got a good mix and a mix that can combat both righty and lefty hitters. He's got a lot of left-handed hitters. So he's put in a lot of work, and it's really cool to see where he's at right now.

DMF:  Well, congratulations to him and to you and all the staff because that's such a great story. I know the journey is not complete yet, but again, when we compare it to 14 months ago, wow. 

CP:  Yeah. A long way. Really cool for him.

DMF: So Ricky Tiedemann pitched in the Complex League on Friday. And so how are things going with him first off? That was the first question I wanted to ask.

CP:   So the results obviously weren't what any of us would have hoped for, including Ricky, but the encouraging thing was that he felt good after the outing. I think kind of where the focus is now, he'll throw again on Thursday.  It's just trying to get the mix a little bit better. He shied away from his changeup a lot over the last year, and that's something that we're really working with him to try to get him comfortable and throwing the changeup more.But again, right now, the most important thing, is that he's healthy. And as he continues to build up health in his pitch count, I think it's continuing to work on the mix a little bit, because he's held against lefties.  It's just helping him with righties and improving his mix to right-handed hitters a little bit. 

DMF: And you're an old pitcher. Well, not old, but you're a pitcher. And I still think of myself as a centrefielder..  Anyway, and I know from talking with Joel about Eric saying how he's finding now that he’s injury free, his head is clear. Is that a huge thing for pitchers? 

CP:  Yeah, it's a hurdle. And I think Ricky does a better job than most  kind of going about his work and being focused on the task at hand. It's tough, though. I don't think anyone could fault him if he was, but he hasn't expressed that, and he's diligent about his work, and he goes out and attacks guys. And so the hope is, with this process, is that by the time he gets back pitching into real games back in Buffalo, that he's confident with his preparation and doesn't have to think about that. And so that's kind of our goal through this entire process, is when he gets back, it's you're pitching now. It's not that you're on a strict pitch count. And so our rehab team's doing a good job getting him ready to get back to that. And once he's back there, we look forward to having him go out and pitch and not having to worry about those things. But yeah, it's, as we spoke about last year, for me personally,  it was always something in the back of my mind. 

DMF:  Jim Bouton, 55 years ago, wrote in Ball Four  about how he'd be at dinner with his family and people thought he was signaling for the check because he was doing this (making a circle with his pitching arm),  but he felt a twinge in his shoulder. 

CP: I still do that, and I haven't thrown off a mound in years, so it just becomes second nature. 

DMF: Now, kind of leading into that, and that will get us to Barriera and Maroudis, and I know this is an industry, more of an industry-wide problem that you're all trying to figure out, but what's, how are we doing in terms of figuring out how to ramp up these young guys in the spring and try to avoid these kind of issues? 

CP:  Gosh, you know, if you would have asked this question before the season started, I would have felt a lot better about it. Last year, we had implemented some changes in our systems with how we were tracking certain things, and for the large part, we avoided major surgeries last year, and so we felt pretty confident coming into this year that we had a system that was going to be beneficial, but obviously that has, with particularly the younger guys that you just mentioned, there's been an issue, and so it's something constantly

that when things like that do happen, we're assessing, you know, how could we have done this better?  Should we have gone slower with the ramp up? Were we not having them throw enough? It's something that everyone in the organization, as soon as it happens, is going through and trying to figure out how we could have made an adjustment, and like you mentioned, it's an industry-wide trend right now, and so I'd like to say we're getting closer, but it's still something where those injuries pop up and it's incredibly frustrating. Having gone through that myself, it just hurts. You know, you'd love to watch them pitch, and you can feel for the kids, and it is something that, I can speak personally, keeps me up at night. It's something that we're going to continue working on and hopefully one day figure out, but yeah, it's frustrating. I wish I had a better answer for you.

DMF: Nobody has the answer just yet, and I'm sure the answer is very complex, and I know that you guys have all hands on deck trying to come up with a solution to this, but it's complex to say the least. 

CP:   Yeah, and so both those guys have, you know, to their credit, are working hard as they're rehabbing back, and it's impressive. They're mature beyond their years, and they've battled - Brandon has battled through some stuff, and he continues to work hard, and we're really encouraged by the little bit that we saw Landon,  and we look forward to having him back and how he's going to work his tail off while he's rehabbing. 

DMF:  I saw Dahian Santos was back the other day….it’s been a long time (since July 1st of last year) waiting for him. 

CP: So he came into spring training and was a little behind, had been banged up a little bit. After you and I spoke last, he had left the complex healthy. I think there was a little bit of a hiccup there when he got back. He had to shut down from throwing pretty quickly. Since then, and this is a credit to our rehab staff and nutrition strength team, he's really been working hard since that shutdown in spring training and he's in a pretty good spot right now. He threw a bullpen today that was pretty sharp. He looked good in his outing last week, and so he's getting close to being ready to head back out. And so we're looking forward to that.  And he will throw again, I believe it's Saturday. 

 DMF:  Cory, I’m just curious:  the organization's hope was that more guys with the pitching lab, the hitting lab, the training complex, the covered fields, everything would see more guys spending their off season in the area. Are you seeing that happen with your pitchers yet?

CP: Yeah, we are. The tough thing is, there was a mandated blackout this year where you weren't allowed to contact them unless they reached out to you or have them at the complex unless they were in rehab. So it has happened. More and more guys have been down here training

 and we've had camps to get them out here. But that period during the blackout is right at a time where we have guys ramping up intensity. So it's not the most ideal, but they're the rules and we're going to have to get better at keeping track of guys and making sure that when they go home, they have a plan that they can hold themselves accountable to.  And I think that for some guys, this was a learning experience, what that blackout period is going to look like. And so you hope to learn from the mistakes and the areas where we might have seen some guys drop off. But overall, we feel good about the guys first trying to move into the area and show up to the complex and are using it on a yearly basis during the off season. So I wouldn't be surprised if that trend continues again into this off season.

DMF: And how long does it last? The blackout period? 

CP:  It's six weeks. It's from around Thanksgiving time in the States till I believe last year was the third of January. So that was the first year. 

DMF:  Okay. And you cross your fingers during that time. 

CP:  I mean, ultimately, it's these guys' careers and they have to work. And it's, you know, if they can't do it on their own, it's going to be hard to keep going. But yeah, you cross your fingers when you aren't able to see them for that time, especially when guys are ramping up and getting off the mound.  It's definitely a nerve-wracking time for me.

DMF: How about Chad Dallas and Kendry Rojas (both have been on the IL)? Can you offer any updates there? 

CP: Kendry just threw a live BP today. Two innings, pretty electric up to 96. There's some routine stuff that he, for lack of better terms, kind of fell off when he went to Vancouver. He's been really good since he got to the complex. And, you know, he's still young. So the hope there is that kind of get your brush with some failure there, figure out that that plan isn't going to work

 and now come back and be a little bit better. So we talked to him a bunch while he’s been here and we're really excited about him in general and, you know, happy that it wasn't something severe. And we're going to get to see him hopefully in game soon. But the live BP he threw today was really encouraging. The fastball looked great. He struck out almost everyone. So it looks good. We just have got to keep him on the field. And I think some of the things that we saw that he could improve off the field when he came down here have started to improve little by little. So we're encouraged about that.

 Chad Dallas, velo was down a little bit this year coming into the season. And so I think you saw him rely more on his cutter than he had in the past.

We saw a little bit of the drop off in the slider velocity, which wasn't making that pitch play as well. He started doing some delivery work right before he ended up getting a little bit of soreness. And so, you know, that's always tough

when you're trying to make changes in season. He's facing the highest level of competition he's ever faced. We're encouraged with the direction that his velocity has taken off. He's getting more 94s than 92s with the fastball.

He's on the cutter hard. So we'll be really interested to see how Chad looks when he gets back. But just the small amount of time he was down here, there were some really encouraging steps…..He's getting closer to the 2023 version that won our Pitcher of the Year and had the year that he did. And so that's the hope with Chad. And it seems like he's on the right track there. 

DMF: Is there a timeline at all?

CP: He will be starting in Buffalo on Thursday. 

DMF: Let's talk about Adam Macko…. What a great story of scouting, of development, of sports science. I don't want to jinx anything, but he hasn't missed a start since he joined the organization.  Just what a great story. And he's knocking on the door. 

CP:  What a year he's had already. Last week he pitched into the seventh inning, which is pretty cool to see him work into the sixth and seventh regularly. The velo's a little down…. It's something that we've been trying to work on with him. And I think we've started to see a payoff. I think there’s a positive trend there. The mix has been good. We love his changeup a lot. And so we're always going to tell him to throw it more.  He's obviously pitching well with what he's got currently. And so I think it's just working with him to try to figure out what the ideal version of him is going forward. Because he's got a good mix and he's a good pitcher. He's just figuring out when to deploy certain things to put more guys away. But,  the walks are at the lowest point in his career while he's facing the highest level of competition. He's not only starting, but he's making it deeper into starts. And so you can't say enough about him. It's been really, really exciting to watch him develop and watch our coaches. And he's super cerebral. So we are trying to get him, like, when he wants to  change something, when we come to a conclusion that he should do that or when we should put it off. And that was the big thing last year was, you know, we would tell him, “Your stuff's really good. Stop tinkering.” And so now it's a little bit more, “Hey, let's throw the changeup more. Let's change the curveball shape a little bit.” But to Adam's credit, he has worked incredibly hard. He's a really smart pitcher. And, yeah, the results so far have been really good this year. So we're really excited about where he's at. 

DMF:  What does he need to do to get to the next level?

CP:   We've been really encouraged by the (pitching every) six days. That was kind of a big challenge going in. Obviously, last year he was going about five (innings) and 80 (pitches) once a week.  So seeing him on the six day schedule, the question is how is he going to handle two starts in a week? How is he bouncing back? What did the stuff look like? I think it's a bigger sample of what he's currently doing. It's been really encouraging.  So I think it’s a matter of continuing to attack hitters the way he has and he's putting himself in a really good spot to get considered there.

DMF: OK, Trenton Wallace is a guy I’ve liked for quite some time - he doesn't throw hard, has that funky arm angle. And I was listening to a guy from Baseball America the other day just saying, you know, you look up and it's six innings and he's only given up a run and three or four hits.  What's next for him? 

CP:  I think a similar answer to Adam is that it's just continuing to do what he's doing. I think if we were to get super nitpicky, it's how's he going to handle right handed hitters going forward? He's hell on lefties. But what can he do to neutralize righties a bit? And he's worked on that. He’s got a changeup and his slider is a pitch he’s thrown in the zone a lot to righties this year. I think just generally like to take that next step is how's he going to get righties out going forward? 

 Like you said, you looked up every time and he's in the sixth with seven strikeouts and one run. So I can't say enough about the year that he's had …he’s someone else who battled some adversity with some arm health stuff last year.  It's a huge testament to Trent and the work he's put in and then the work that Joel and Eric and AA coaches there have done with him. So he's been very exciting this year.

DMF: CJ Van Eyck had a great May. Has fallen off a little bit. This month I kind of expected might see him at a higher level by now. But where are things with him as far as you're concerned.

CP:  The stuff is really good. I think it's just probably clear between getting drafted during COVID and the end of the year arm injury and some other health things that have held him out of competition. He hasn’t thrown a lot of innings.

 So a lot of this is just getting him out there and seeing how to deploy his stuff against better hitters. He's using his fastball less than he has in the past, which is something we like, but it also takes some time to get used to right - when you're throwing your curveball now more than you have in the past, you're going to throw your slider more and your changeup. He’s kind of a different pitcher than he's been in the past.

 So I think we've seen when he's on it's pretty impressive. But I think not just finding the consistency there, you know, use it when he is able to have good outings learning from those and figuring out, hey, this is what I was focused on, here was my plan of attack and being able to do that with more regularity. And so this is one where it seems to make sense that there's some bumps in the road.  He went from pitching in High A to not throwing for two years and then he's in the fall league and now he's in AA. And so I think that we're encouraged by the stuff and it's now just deploying it a little bit better.

Now there are some conversations going on about how to use his mix the best way and how to prepare for hitters a little bit better. And I think it's all part of his learning process. I am just encouraged to see him out there pitching every week. Like that's that in and of itself is a pretty big one. 

DMF:  I’m so excited about some of the guys I’ve seen pitch at Vancouver and Dunedin. I'm going to let you roll with this here. Just tell me first about Connor O'Halloran - dude knows how to pitch. 

CP:  You said it. The kid can pitch. I was fortunate enough to watch his Nat Bailey debut in Vancouver….and (he threw) 3 and 1 breaking balls,  2-1 breaking balls, 3-0 changeups…..(he was) just able to mix and throw his stuff. I think the big thing Cory Riordan, our (Dunedin) pitching coach, did with him was, he did a really good job of just helping him attack hitters.  I think what Cory did a good job and what Connor's been doing a better job of is just attacking guys and not being afraid to be in the zone because he can mix and his stuff is good when it's in the zone.

   And so for him, when he's challenging guys and aggressive, he has the ability to mix his pitches and keep guys off balance. And that was something that when he first got with us, we could see him nitpicking a little bit around the zone, which would lead to some longer innings and walks and gosh,  now look how far he's come from when we drafted him, just different guy attacking guys mixing, and that's really a credit to Cory and then Connor for going out there and attacking guys. And now our pitching coaches there, Carson Phillips and Austin Bibens-Dirks are doing a good job continuing that.

So yeah, we are really encouraged by Connor. He looks like he belongs. 

DMF:  Dunedin’s rotation. I love that whole group. I'd like to see them in Vancouver so those fans can see them, but let's, let's start

 with Fernando Perez. Keep him healthy, please. 

CP:  Yeah, it's,as you say that, probably 80% of my day is worrying about that stuff. But yeah, he’s been really impressive. As you know, you can't scare him out of it. You can't scare him out of the strike zone. The kid just attacks hitters. He goes right after guys. And that was something that we liked about him from when he was pitching in the Dominican summer league is that he just goes right after guys….. so this year has really been focused on how do we get his stuff to tick up and not necessarily the velocity, although that's something that we're always working towards, but improving his slider.  He has such a great feel for the pitch. But some of the stuff last year was a little bit below average. As far as how it modeled.  And so this year, a credit again to the Dunedin staff and to Fernando, the slider has taken a large step forward. He's mixing in a curveball that he could throw for strikes and get called strikes with, and his changeup is a really good pitch.

   He's got all of the tools….it's just gaining that experience, getting that base of throwing for an entire year to kind of keep setting him up down the line. But yeah, I got to watch him last Friday and he's, he's really impressive.

He's attacking guys and it's really encouraging. To see him doing that at 20 years old. He definitely looks like he belongs. 

DMF:  Definitely. Jaron Watts-Brown.  Scouting reports suggest he’ll be a reliever long-term. I know you guys like to develop players like that as a starter to accelerate their development and get them some more innings, but he's checking a lot  of boxes for you right now, I'm sure. 

CP: Yeah, he looks good. The mix there is, has been encouraging. He's, able to go at guys with a bunch of different things. To his credit, we did a lot of delivery work this year with him where he was trying to get his delivery a little bit more athletic, uptempo from some things he felt like might've fallen off before we drafted him.  And to his credit, he's, he's battled through with those delivery changes and is in a really good spot right now. He's throwing his stuff in the zone. He's attacking guys.

 I think moving forward, he should be continuing to refine that mix a little bit, how he's deploying his harder slider/cutter versus his curveball versus his fastball and changeup. It's still going to be a work in progress. But yeah, for where he's at in the year right now, we’re very encouraged with his progress and he's put himself in a good spot. 

DMF:  And now - I call them the twins, because they seem to start on back to back days. Nolan Perry and Gage Stanifer. Wow. What a surprise - both of them.

 Now Perry's from New Mexico. Is that a little bit off the beaten scouting path?

CP:  Yeah. Good find from our scouting department there. And we've been excited about him since he got here. He works hard, has been a diligent worker since we drafted him. And it was really exciting last week to be there.

I made my visit to Dunedin last week and watched him work with our pitching coaches there, and they helped unblock a mechanical issue, and then he went out and threw harder than he ever had, and struck out seven.

So it’s really encouraging. He started a little bit slower this year, just due to some hiccups in spring training, but he's building that pitch count back up and it's getting close to being fully ready to go. And so as he's done that, watching him make the delivery change in a week and then go take it into a game and have some success was really encouraging. And again, I can't say enough good things about the staff there - (Dunedin coaches) Cory Riordan and Yoel Hernandez are doing a really good job with the guys there. Awesome.

DMF:  Gage Stanifer, too. Just a quick comment. 

CP:  He’s an incredible worker.  Our rehab pitching coach trains at his facility in Indiana in the off season (PRP).....our pitching coaches here reduced his walk rate.  He is walking less guys in Low A professional baseball than he did in high school. Which is just, that's not an easy thing to do. And so a huge testament to the work that they've done with him and to Gage himself.

  He's really improved his strike throwing since we drafted him. We've always liked the stuff. I think now it's continuing to refine that and attack hitters - when he’s good he's in the zone and attacking guys, and when he's not he's not putting the ball in the zone as much. I know that's not an incredibly revolutionary statement there, but that for him it's when he's in the zone he's good, and so it's helping him get comfortable with what pitches he's going to attack guys with early and then how to put them away when he gets to two strikes but the fact that his walk rate's lower now than we got him out of high school is really exciting.

DMF:  Ok, finally.  Let’s get to the guys in your backyard, the guys in the Complex League we don’t get to see.  Who has stood out to you so far?

CP:  Christopher Castro is one - a really good arm, he had been hurt for the past couple of seasons, but when he’s on, it’s electric, it’s really whippy.  We’d like to see some more physical development from him - he’s a bit on the small side right now.   Striking out 31% of guys in the Complex League after not having played for a while is really encouraging.

  Samuel Colmeneras is another guy we’re excited about.  He’s only 18, but is already in the Complex League.  Originally in the DSL he was going to be a reliever, but due to his work ethic and how impressed we were with him, he’s had a chance to start, and he’s going to continue to do so.  He’s striking out better than a batter per inning, which is impressive.

  Another guy to keep an eye on - the results haven’t necessarily been there yet - is Daniel Guerra.  We like how he works, he’s a big body, his big thing right now is just figuring out how the mix works.  He’s got the stuff to strike guys out, we just need to teach him how to do that better.  If we still had Short Season, that might be the next step for him, but as it is, we have him repeating the Complex.